Named Storms: Real-World Insights to Navigate Coverage with Confidence

Hello everyone.

On behalf of McGriff, I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of you for joining us today as we discussed name storms, real world insights to navigate coverage with confidence.

My name is Lesonya Wilder and I will be your host for the call today.

There are just a couple of housekeeping points that I would like to share before we get started.

This is a live session and you are in listen mode on only.

If you have any questions at any time during the presentation, feel free to utilize the chat box or the Q&A box to type in your questions and we will address them during the Q&A segment.

If for some reason time doesn’t permit us to answer the questions after the presentation, we will be sure to capture them and provide the responses afterwards.

Now it brings me great pleasure to introduce to you, our speaker for the hour, Douglas Hall.

As a Senior Claims Account Executive, Doug supports clients and producers by servicing them enterprise wide.

Doug would manage and deliver assigned complex claim and coverage evaluations on all insurance lines with a focus on property.

He would deliver value added claim consulting services to clients and be involved with new sales opportunities.

His extensive background in property claims gives him a unique perspective that allows him to tailor solutions with successful outcomes for our clients.

A graduate of Clemson University with a bachelor’s degree in management, Doug also has earned his Associate in Claims designation and holds an adjuster’s license.

His strengths include commercial and personal lines, property coverage analysis, relationship management, and issue resolution.

His experience includes large laws, claim handling, exact estimating, property technicals, training, and property claims leadership.

So without further, I will turn it over to Doug to kick off the presentation.

Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you, Lesonya.

Thanks for joining us today.

As Lasagna mentioned, my name is Doug Hall.

I’m a claims account executive here with McGriff.

Today we’re going to talk about name storms and commercial property insurance, how they’re defined, what triggers special deductibles, and how to avoid surprises when a storm hits.

So the slides I’ll be using today are going to give you the topic, but the real goal is to help you understand how these provisions work when a claim actually happens.

Name storm language can look simple on declarations pages, but the impact can be some significant once you apply the definitions.

The timing rules, geographic triggers, and deductible calculations all have to be looked at.

Lasagna has already covered the formal housekeeping, so I’ll just keep it short.

Again, attendees will remain muted and questions can be submitted throughout the chat.

Lasagna will capture those and if time permits at the end we can address selected questions.

If not, I can address those afterwards in a follow up.

The most important concept for today is this.

The policy wording controls named storm deductibles, are not applied based on how dramatic the storm looked on television, how much damage occurred, or what people called it locally.

They’re applied based on policy language, the definitions, endorsement, triggers, timing windows, and deductible calculations.

So now let’s start with a road map for where we’re going today.

Here’s how we’re going to move through the topic.

We’ll start with the basic question.

What is the name storm and who gets to decide that?
That may sound obvious, but an insurance the answer comes from the policy definition, not from general conversation.

Then we’ll move into the deductible hierarchy.

This is where a lot of confusion starts.

Standard deductibles, wind deductibles, named storm deductibles, and hurricane deductibles.

The key is understanding which one applies and why.

From there we’ll look at endorsements.

We will use the ISO CP 03/25 as a common example, but I’ll also talk about why carrier specific forms may differ.

That matters because you cannot assume every policy follows the same trigger or calculation method.

Then we’ll walk through the mechanics, things like the 72 hour rule watch and warning triggers and geographic scope.

After that, we’ll do the deductible math because the math is where people fully understand the impact.

And then finally, we’ll apply the content concepts into real world scenarios and close with practical steps to avoid coverage gaps before storm season.

So with that road map in mind, here’s what you should be able to take away from the session.

This slide is really the checklist for what I want you to be able to do when we finish.

First, you should be able to define a name storm the way a commercial property policy uses that term.

That’s important because the insurance definition may be narrower or more specific than everyday usage.

Second, you should be able to distinguish between windstorm name storm and hurricane deductibles.

I’m going to repeat that distinction several times because it’s the heart of the presentation.

A wind deductible is usually caused cost based, a named storm deductible is a vent based, and a hurricane deductible is classification based.

Third, you should understand how endorsements modify the policy.

Many insured see a percentage on a declarations page and assume they understand it, but the endorsement tells us when that deductible applies, how long it applies, and what location it applies to.

Also, what value is calculated against 4th.

We’ll cover trigger language, watch and warning, 72 hour rule, and the geographic scope.

This is the part that often drives claim disputes because timing and location matter.

5th, we’ll calculate the name storm deductibles under a specific and blanket insurance.

That’s where we convert convert percentages into real dollars.

And finally, we’ll identify potential coverage gaps and proactive steps to protect commercial properties before storm season.

The worst time to discover a gap is after a loss.

So let’s begin with the first question.

What’s the name storm?
Before we can talk about deductibles, we have to define the event.

This section is about threshold question.

What does the policy mean by name storm, Who has to name it, and what kind of storm qualifies?
Let’s look at a sample definition on the next slide.

So now we move from general weather terminology to contract language.

In commercial property insurance, a name storm is a defined term.

It’s not just a phrase people use because a storm was memorable or severe.

The policy has to tell us what counts.

The sample definition on this slide comes from the ISO CPO 325 That is 1 common named storm deductible endorsement, But it’s not the only form you’ll see many carriers use their own proprietary versions.

The definition says a named storm is a storm system with a defined surface circulation and maximum sustained winds of at least 39 mph that the National Hurricane Center of the National Weather Service names as a tropical storm or hurricane.

Rather than reading that definition as one long sentence, I would break it into 3 practical questions.

First, who gets to name the storm For the purposes of this policy, the slide lists the National Hurricane Center, the Central Pacific Hurricane Center, and the World Meteorological Organization.

The important point is that naming authority has to be recognized by the policy.

Second, what is the maximum?
Excuse me, what is the minimum storm left?
The 39 mile per hour threshold matters because that is a tropical storm strength.

So a storm does not have to become a hurricane to trigger named storm language.

A named tropical storm might be enough.

Third, was the storm officially named?
Wind damage alone is not enough.

A severe windstorm can cause major property damage, but if it was never officially named by the authority recognized in the policy, the named storm deductible might not apply.

That last point is important.

In claims, people sometimes focus on the damage first, but for deductible purposes, we start with the contact the contract trigger.

Was it named?
Who named it, did it meet the definition, and did the timing and location requirements apply?
The practical take away is simple.

Don’t rely on how the storm was discussed in the media or described locally.

Pull the policy and read the definition.

Some private organizations named storms for media tracking, especially winter storms.

That does not automatically trigger a named storm deductible.

The policy has to recognize the naming authority.

So now that we know what a named storm is, the next question is what that does to the deductible.

So now we get into the part that you that usually gets the most attention after a loss.

The deductible hierarchy is where we determine which deductible applies standard wind, named storm or hurricane.

So let’s walk through the three deductible buckets on this next slide.

This is actually probably the most important slide in the presentation.

The reason this slide matters is that it clears up one of the biggest misconceptions.

Storm deductibles usually do not stack.

Most policies are designed so that one applicable deductible applies to a single loss.

Think of the three columns here as a decision tree.

The wind or windstorm deductible is cause based.

If the damages caused by wind or hail, this deductible might apply.

The storm does not have to be named.

The policies looking at the cause of the damage.

In the example on the slide, a 2% deductible on a $500,000 value equals $10,000 deductible.

The name storm deductible is event based.

Here we’re not just asking whether wind caused the damage, we’re asking whether the storm was officially named and whether the policies named Storm Trigger applies.

The slide gives an example of a 5% deductible on a $1 million value, which equals a $50,000 deductible.

The hurricane deductible is classification based.

It usually applies only when the storm reaches hurricane status, commonly category category one or higher, depending on the policy.

Sometimes this is a separate deductible, sometimes it operates as as part of a broader named storm structure.

Where this becomes practical is after the claim is reported.

An insured might say this was wind damage.

So why am I getting a named storm deductible?
The answer may be that the loss occurred during a named storm.

And that endorsement says the named storm deductible replaces the wind deductible.

The mistake people make is assuming all of these deductibles apply together.

In most cases, they do not.

You do not add the standard deductible plus the wind deductible plus the name stored deductible.

Instead, the policy tells you which deductible replaces the others.

So when I look at this issue, I ask for questions.

What caused the damage?
Was the storm officially named?
Did it reach hurricane status, and did the loss occur during the policies defined trigger.

For that location?
So that’s the decision tree cause event classification, timing and location.

If there’s separate policies, for example a separate win policy, each policy can have its own deductible.

That’s different from stacking multiple deductibles under one policy.

So now that we understand the deductible buckets, we need to look at the endorsement language that controls them.

Now we’re going to move from the concept to the actual policy language.

This is where the endorsement tells us when the deduct, the deductible applies, how long it applies, and how it’s calculated.

So let’s use the ISO CPO 325 as a common example.

This slide is useful because it gives us a clean example of how a named storm deductible endorsement works.

And this ISO form, it’s common, but it’s just one widely used named storm deductible endorsement.

So to be clear, it’s an example, not a guarantee that every carrier form reads the same way.

The slide shows that this type of endorsement can apply to several commercial property forms.

Building and personal property builders risk, condo association and standard property policy forms.

So this is very much a convert a commercial property issue, not just a personal lines or homeowners issue.

The endorsement activates a percentage based deductible for name storm losses.

The ISO form might use one percent, 2% or 5%, while proprietary forms might use other percentages.

The most important part of this slide is the how it applies section.

First, the trigger.

The National Hurricane Center or Central Pacific Hurricane Center issues a name storm watcher warning for the affected premises location.

That phrase affected premises location matters.

We’re not just asking whether a storm existed somewhere, we’re asking whether the specific insured location was within the policies trigger area.

2nd, the duration.

Under this ISO style approach, the deductible.

Begins at watch or warning issuance and in 72 hours after the final watch or warning is terminated.

That means the deductible.

Can continue after the storm has physically passed.

Third, the calculation base.

The deductible applies to the limit of insurance, not the amount of loss for each affected item.

This is where insurance often get surprised.

4th non named wind.

If the windstorm is not a named storm, the standard deductible may apply instead, depending on the form and the rest of the policy.

And finally, flood separation.

Wind and flood may arise from the same weather event, but they’re treated separately.

The name, storm deductible and flood deductible are not combined.

The practical lesson is that the declarations page is only the starting point.

The endorsement is where the real answer lives.

So now let’s look at why we cannot assume every carrier form follows the same pattern.

This slide is the caution sign.

ISO gives us a benchmark, but the carrier the, excuse me, the actual carrier form controls.

Carrier endorsements can vary in several ways.

The storm definition can vary.

ISO ties the definition to naming by the National Hurricane Center or Central Pacific Hurricane Center and sustained wind thresholds.

But some carrier forms might include other recognized meteorological organizations, regional centers, or broader tropical cyclone language.

The trigger event can vary.

Some forms trigger on watch or warning for the specific premises, others might trigger when the storm enters A defined geographic zone, and others may trigger a landfall.

Some might use broader language, like during the name storm.

The deductible percentage can vary.

ISO may use 1/2 or 5%.

Proprietary forms might use 1 to 15% or more, and some carriers tie their deductibles, excuse me, tier their deductibles based on distance to coast, construction type, property class, or other underwriting factors.

The time window can vary.

ISO uses 72 hours after the final watch or warning terminates.

Other forms might use 48 hours, 96 hours, or different defined.

Coverage.

Goat can vary too, so this is a major distinction.

ISO CPO 325 is a deductible endorsement.

That means coverage might still exist above the deductible if the loss is otherwise covered.

But in a high risk coastal terriers, some carrier forms may exclude named storm or wind entirely.

That moves the issue from deductible structure to coverage availability.

So the bottom line is the line on the slide.

Never assume, always read the form.

You may see polities policy descriptions that refer to timing windows before naming through after downgrade.

That does not mean every form works the site that way.

It reinforces the timing.

Language is not uniform.

So from a claim or broker’s perspective, this is where I would slow down if a client asked what is my name?
Storm deductible.

The percentage alone is not enough.

We also need to know the definition, trigger, time period, geography, calculation base, and whether the coverage is included or excluded.

Next we’ll look more closely at one of the most common trigger concepts, the 72 hour rule.

So it’s time here to focus on the clock and the map.

By that I mean, when does the name storm.

Begin, when does it end, and what location does it apply to?
So that brings us to the 72 hour rule and geographic scope.

This explains why timing matters so much.

So walk through the timeline here from left to right.

1st a watch is issued for your area, then a warning is issued and then the name storm.

Begins.

Under this type of wording the storm passes, the last watch or warning is terminated by the National Hurricane Center.

Then the policy adds 72 hours.

After that 72 hour period the normal deductible applies.

Again, this is where insured sometimes get surprised.

After the storm does not always mean after the deductible window.

The reason this matters is that the deductible.

Is not always the same as the period when the storm is physically over.

The property damage that occurs after the worst weather has passed still might fall inside the name storm deductible window.

For example, if additional wind related damage is discovered or develops during that, the deductible analysis may still point back to the name storm.

That’s why timing documentation can matter in a claim.

The second major point is geographic scope.

The watch or warning must cover the specific premises location.

That’s not just a technicality.

On a commercial schedule with multiple locations, 1 property might be inside the watch or warning area while another might not be.

So if you’re looking at a multi location claim, don’t assume the same deductible applies to every location.

You may need to check the watch and warning history against specific insured premises.

The Third Point is overlapping storms.

A new name storm can create a fresh trigger.

If storms occur close together or if 2 weather systems affect the same area, the deductible analysis may become more complicated.

You have to look at timing, causation, location, and the policies occurrence language.

The practical take away is this.

When a named storm deductible is involved, build a timeline.

When was the watch issued?
When was the warning issued?
When was the final watch a warning terminated?
When did the damage occur?
Which location was involved?
Those facts matter.

So now that we understand the trigger.

Let’s look at the math.

So here’s where we get to the part that usually gets everyone’s attention, the dollars.

The deductible math is where a percentage starts to feel really different from a flat deductible.

So let’s walk through the example.

This side is the clearest example of why named storm deductibles can create surprise.

The rule at the top is key.

The deductible is applied to the limit of insurance, not to the amount of loss.

Look at this standard loss example first.

We have a $1 million building.

The amount of loss is $50,000.

The deductible is a flat $5000.

So the insurer pays $45,000.

That outcome feels familiar.

Most people understand a flat deductible.

You take the deductible off the loss amount and the policy pays the balance, subject to the terms and limits.

Now compare the the Name storm example.

Same building, same $1 million insured value, same $50,000 loss.

But the deductibles of 5%.

Name storm deductible 5% of $1,000,000 is $50,000.

That means the deductible equals the amount of the loss and the insurer pays 0.

So that’s the moment I want people to remember.

Same damage, same building, different deductible trigger, completely different financial outcome.

This is why I recommend converting percentage deductibles into dollars before storm season.

A 5% deductible can sound manageable when it’s written as a percentage, but on $1,000,000 building is $50,000, on a $5,000,000 building is $250,000, or a $10 million building is $500,000.

So from the insurance standpoint, that is retained risk.

It’s it’s effectively the amount the insured must be prepared to absorb before the policy is going to pay.

The percentage structure helps insurers manage catastrophe severity while keeping coverage available in higher risk areas.

It also shifts meaningful retained risk to the insured.

So the practical take away is this.

Do the math before the storm.

Know the dollar amount, not just the percentage.

So next we’ll add one more layer.

Whether the insurance is specific or blanket, what value is the percentage applied to with specific insurance, Each building has its own limit.

In the example, Building A has a $500,000 limit and Building B has a $500,000 limit.

A 5% deductible gives us 25,000 for Building A and 25,000 for Building B.

If both have a loss, the total deductible is $50,000.

The phrase to focus on is this.

The deductible is calculated separately for each item with loss.

With blanket insurance, one limit covers multiple buildings.

The example uses $1,000,000 blanket limit for buildings A and BA.

5% deductible in that blanket value is $50,000.

Depending on the form, the deductible might be based on the blanket limit, the value of the at the affected location, reported values, or the statement of values.

That’s why wording matters.

This is also why the statement of values matters.

It’s not just an underwriting document.

It can affect claim outcomes and deductible calculations.

If values are outdated and complete or poorly allocated, the insured might get a deductible surprise after a loss.

From practical standpoint, I would want a client to know three things before storm season.

What locations are subject to the name storm deductible, what values or limits the deductible is based on, and what the percentage equals in dollars at each location.

Now let’s apply this with four practical scenarios.

The goal here is not to memorize the scenarios.

The goal here is to practice the decision tree.

This slide’s a quick test of everything we’ve covered so far.

Scenario one non named wind event.

A strong windstorm causes roof or building damage, but the storm is not officially named.

The policy deduct.

Excuse me, the policy includes a wind deductible endorsement.

In that case the wind deductible applies and there replaces the standard deductible.

The key is that the trigger is cause based.

Wind caused the damage but the named storm trigger was not satisfied.

In scenario two, we have a named tropical storm.

A tropical storm is officially named and causes wind damage to the building.

The policy has both a wind deductible and a named storm deductible.

In that case, the named storm deductible applies and overrides the wind deductible.

That’s the scenario where the insurance might say, but this was wind damage.

Yes, it was, but it was wind damage during a named storm event and the endorsement may say the named storm deductible controls.

In scenario three, we have hurricane landfall.

So the storm makes landfall as a Category 2 hurricane and covered wind damage occurs.

If the policy includes a hurricane or named storm deductible, the hurricane deductible applies to losses within the defined hurricane time period.

The important point is to read whether the policy has hurricane specific language or broader named storm language that includes hurricanes.

Scenario four wind excluded with a separate wind policy.

So this is a different structure.

The primary property policy excludes when a separate wind policy is in place.

In that case, the wind policy deductible applies, and the primary property deductible does not apply to wind damage at all.

That scenario is not about choosing between deductibles on one policy.

It’s about recognizing that the coverage has been split across policies.

The broader lesson is to start with structure.

Is wind covered on the property policy?
Is there a wind deductible?
Is there a name storm deductible?
Is there a hurricane deductible?
Whereas wind excluded and placed somewhere else.

The structure determines the path.

So now that we’ve seen the scenarios, let’s look at real carrier endorsement language.

This slide is important because it shows how the concepts appear in an actual endorsement language.

This example is from a South Carolina policy.

The exact language will differ by insurer and state, but the structure structure is useful.

First, notice the warning.

This policy contains a separate deductible for hurricane name, storm, or wind and hail losses which may result in high out of pocket expenses to the client.

That is plain language signal that this deductible can be significant.

Next, look at the percentage options.

This form shows options from one to 10% as shown in the declarations.

The deductible is calculated separately for each building and for personal property in each building.

Then look at how the percentage is applied under specific insurance.

It applies to the limit of insurance for each effective item.

Under blanket arrangements, it may apply to the statement of values.

A minimum dollar amount may also apply.

This slide also highlights business income that’s easy to miss.

Business income may have a separate our deductible coverage does not begin until that our deductible expires and the business income deductible.

Starts at the time of direct physical loss.

That means timing documentation matters.

When did the physical loss occur, when did the interruption begin?
When does the waiting period expire and what loss falls after that point?
The endorsement also says no deductible applies to extra expense coverage.

That can matter because extra expense might be the coverage that helps the insured reduce the the interruption, temporary power, temporary space, additional labor or other costs to continue operations.

Finally, flood losses are handled under a separate flood deductible, not the wind and hail deductible.

Same storm, different coverage treatment.

So now let’s step back and talk about why 2 properties hit by the same storm can still have different deductibles.

This is a question people naturally ask.

Same storm, same damage, Why different deductibles?
The answer is that the deductible not is not determined by the storm alone, is determined by the policy structure.

State regulations can affect deduct deductibles, especially in coastal or high risk areas.

One state may allow or require a different structure than another.

Policy form differences matter.

1 pilot.

One property may have an ISO form and another might have a proprietary carrier form.

Those forms may define name storm differently, trigger the deductible differently, or calculate it differently.

Carrier underwriting rules matter.

Deductibles can vary based on coastal tier construction, occupancy, roof condition, loss history, catastrophe modeling, or property characteristics.

Wind endorsed versus excluded is another major difference.

If wind is included on the property policy, one deductible structure applies.

If wind is excluded and placed under a separate policy, a completely different structure applies.

Some policies have mandatory deductible requirements.

For example, once a win percentage deductible is used, a named storm percentage deductible may also be required.

And finally, property location and tier matter.

A property closer to the coast or in a defined high risk tier may face tire deductibles or exclusions.

So when 2 neighboring properties have different outcomes, that does not automatically mean something is wrong.

It often means the policies are different.

So that leads to the most serious version of the issue, when the coverage is not just subject to a deductible, but excluded entirely.

Here we distinguish between a deductible problem and a coverage problem.

A deductible means coverage may exist above the deductible and exclusion means the policy is not providing any coverage at all.

In the highest risk coastal tier markets, standard commercial property policies may exclude name, storm or wind coverage entirely.

The sample language on the slide says the policy will not pay for a loss, damage or expense caused directly or indirectly by or resulting from a named tropical storm or hurricane, regardless of any other cause or event that contributes to or aggravates the loss.

That type of language is very significant because it’s intended to apply even when multiple causes contribute to the loss.

When wind is excluded, a separate wind or named storm policy is needed.

That separate policy may come from a specialty carrier, the ENS market, or a state wind pool.

The slide mentions that many coastal states operate wind poles as a market of last resort.

Those policies have their own forms, limits, deductibles, and conditions that may not match the primary property policy.

The coverage gap risk is straightforward.

If the primary property policy excludes when and the insurer does not have a separate wind policy, there may be no insurance for named storm wind damage.

That’s why I went wind exclusion needs to be addressed before storm season, not when a storm is already approaching.

So now let’s move from identifying the problem to the practical steps to avoid it.

So this is the action slide.

If someone asks what to do with this information, this is the answer.

First, read your policy and all endorsements.

Do not stop at the declarations page.

Locate the name, storm endorsement, wind and hail endorsement, hurricane deductible endorsement, and flood provisions.

Also the business income terms, extra expense terms and any exclusions.

Second, know your deductible amount in dollars.

If a $2,000,000 building has a 5% deductible, that’s $100,000 out of pocket.

That’s not a number of the client should learn for the first time after a loss.

3rd, review the statement of values annually for blanket arrangements.

Outdated values can lead to unexpected deductible outcomes.

The statement of values should reflect current replacement costs and accurate location level values.

4th Confirm geographic triggers.

Make sure you understand whether the deductible applies based on watch or warning for the specific premises location, a geographic zone, landfall, or some other trigger.

5th Address the wind exclusion gap.

If wind is excluded, confirm that a separate wind or named storm policy is in place before hurricane season.

It also confirmed that the limits align with the rest of the property.

Program 6 Document pre storm conditions.

Photographs, roof reports, maintenance records and equipment condition documentation can help reduce disputes about what was pre-existing and what was storm related.

I would add one more practical point.

Have an emergency response plan.

Know who can authorize mitigation work.

Who should be contacted, how invoices, photos and timelines will be captured, and how Deductibles also encourage proactive mitigation.

Basic hardening and preparation can reduce both damage and claim friction.

A clean claim file starts before the claim.

The broader message is that named storm preparedness is not just about buying insurance.

It’s about understanding retained risk, confirming the coverage structure, documenting conditions, and being ready to respond.

So let’s close with some key takeaways.

This slide is the summary.

I won’t be able to leave with first name.

Storm means official designation.

A storm has to officially be named by the authority recognized in the policy.

Not all wind events qualify.

Second, percentage deductibles are significant.

A 5% deductible in $1,000,000 building equals $50,000.

That same loss under a flat deductible might have a very different outcome.

Third, know your policy structure.

Is wind endorsed into the property?
Policy is excluded.

Is there a separate wind policy?
That structure determines the path.

4th deductibles replace.

They do not usually stack.

Most policies have one applicable deductible, a deductible per covered loss, and the named storm deductibles typically override wind deductibles when the named storm trigger is met.

5th The 72 hour rule matters.

The named storm.

Might begin with the watcher warning and extend 72 hours after the last warning terminates for that area.

6 proactive review prevents surprises.

Review endorsements, update values, calculate potential deductibles, confirm wind coverage, and document pre storm conditions before storm season.

So if I had to reduce the whole presentation to one sentence, it’d be this.

Understand the trigger and calculate the deductible before the storm.

OK.

Well, thanks for attending today.

I appreciate your time and I hope you’re leaving with a practical actionable insights for your commercial property clients.

So I’ll close with one final remind reminder, remember that insurance policies are legal contracts.

Coverage terms, deductible structures, endorsements and exclusions vary by insurer, policy form, state and underwriting guidelines.

Always refer to the specific policy wording for how deductibles apply.

So that includes concludes the webinar today and thank you for joining us.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Douglas.

A wonderful presentation and very timely.

As we all know, we’re knocking on the door of that season with all these storms coming up.

So great presentation.

Everyone will receive a copy of this presentation as well as the recording.

So again, on behalf of McGill McGriff, we thank each of you for joining us today and we hope you all have a wonderful rest of your day.

Thank you.

Thanks.